AND SO...ROUND 2 BEGINS...
OK, we’re getting right into it.
I’d like to first welcome Miss Leslie to these proceedings. She is a movie buff, film knowledge extraordinaire and…a film director to boot. She knows her stuff.
And…she’s a lady…so watch the dick jokes, people…although I have a feeling Miss Leslie will be the first out of the gate with a dick joke…oh sure, on-set she seems nice and quiet, but I’ve seen her in a drunken argument/brawl up against twelve sailors and I’ll give you two guesses as to had the foulest mouth of the lot…even the sailors were shocked…
I’d like to first welcome Miss Leslie to these proceedings. She is a movie buff, film knowledge extraordinaire and…a film director to boot. She knows her stuff.
And…she’s a lady…so watch the dick jokes, people…although I have a feeling Miss Leslie will be the first out of the gate with a dick joke…oh sure, on-set she seems nice and quiet, but I’ve seen her in a drunken argument/brawl up against twelve sailors and I’ll give you two guesses as to had the foulest mouth of the lot…even the sailors were shocked…
OK…so Round 2 begins…and we start off strong with two names that were held out of Round 1…
Robert Rodriguez VS Guy Ritchie
Good ‘ol Roberto has made some entertaining films and has, I believe, really advanced the whole D.I.Y. sensibility to film making.
Guy….well…you know how I feel about him, but this isn’t about me…it’s about YOU!
David Fincher VS Michel Gondry
Two visual masters. The question is…whose vision would like to be your master? Wait…that sounded kinda S&M-ish…
So have at it kiddies! The fun (and hate and anger and resentment) is about to begin!!!
Be Tough! Be Strong! Be like Chuck Norris!
posted by Erin_Echo | 9:41 AM
29 Comments:
Chuck Norris doesn't sleep... he waits.
(psst) Hey, Erin: I'm in.
Thank you, Mr. Echo, for painting such an attractive portrait of me.
As for Senor Rodriguez and Sir Ritchie, that's like asking me to pick between death by hanging or death by drowning. In order to make my decision, I have to analyze which director is LESS of a sell out.
El Mariachi is violent, frenetic, and dead-pan. Rodriguez could've been the Sergio Leone of this generation. But he had to go out and do Spy Kids. And then Spy Kids 2. And then Spy Kids 3.
Lock, Stock, and Two Smoking Barrels is intense, energetic, and stylized. He had potential to be the British Quentin Tarantino. But then he did the same movie again but called it Snatch. And then he did Swept Away.
At least kids seem to like Spy Kids, but even Madonna fans hate Swept Away. Rodriguez still seems to carry cult status. My vote will have to go to Senor Roberto.
And now, I shall direct a scene between David Fincher and Michel Gondry...
Finchie: Michel, you French fuck! You think your shit don't stink, just because Leslie thinks Eternal Sunshine is a masterpiece.
Frenchie: Oui, Oui, I am very vizual. But, Dah-veed, you are...how you say...talented. Lezlie sez Seven and Fight Club are tour de force.
Finchie: That's right, mother fucker! And I know Brad Pitt.
Frenchie: I know Bjork.
Finchie: Brad Pitt is cooler.
Frenchie: No, no! Bjork iz zee best!
Finchie: My penis is bigger.
Frenchie: My penis iz artistique...like a fleur de lis.
End of scene.
Monsieur Gondry wins.
Out of the gate with FIYAH!!!
Thank you for a fantastic first post Miss Leslie.
Hot damn I forgot how great your dialogue can be!
And by dialogue...I mean...words people say to one another...nothing else.
Rodriguez VS Ritichie
Well, I’ve already made my feelings known about Ritchie. I think his time has passed and Mathew Vaughan was smart to sit back and watch Ritchie make his mistakes so when Vaughan made his first film (Layer Cake) he didn’t fall into the same traps Senor Ritchie did.
Rodriguez showed great promise from the start. El Mariachi was well accomplished for what he had at his disposal (and for what he didn’t have). Desperado was more of the same but you can really see his love of Hong Kong flicks in there. For better or worse, Rodriguez may have been one of the first to really inspire that type of filmmaking in American cinema.
From there on, I can’t really say there’s been a film of his that got me excited or interested. Spy Kids 1 – 23 are good for the crowd they shoot for. Lava Chick and Trout Lad? Same thing. However, I do think Sin City is a successful experiment in film making and comic book adaptations.
And the fact that this guy does it all from the directing to the music to the editing to the camera work to the touching of the naughties of the stars to the kissing of the asses to the catering to the yard work and then taking out the trash…the man is a human energizer bunny.
I’m gonna give this one to Rodriguez. As Pete would say, it’s a no-brainer.
WINNER: RODRIGUEZ
Fincher VS Gondry
Fincher is like James Cameron, only darker.
While I agreed with the fictional argument between these two guys (as scripted by Miss Leslie) I think Fincher has proven himself to not only be visionary, but highly influential in other film makers. It’s a little too early for me to tell is Gondry will be that.
Yes, ‘Eternal Sunshine’ is one of the finest, most original American pictures to come out in the last 5 years or so…but will we say the same about Dave Chappelle’s Block Party in ten years? Don’t know.
Seven, Fight Club, The Game and Panic Room, while all stemming from the same genetic pool, each have a different feel while maintaining something signature from the director (interesting camera work, intense performances, distinct lighting). Like I said, he’s a lot like Cameron.
WINNER: FINCHER
welcome bss and miss leslie.
do i have to call you bss?
miss leslie- i apologize in advance.
pete
How Rodriguez made it to the second round is beyond me. He’s made one good movie and it was a kiddie movie (which of course he beat to death with two ultra silly sequels) and a bunch of over stylized NRA financed exercises in violence filmed in his backyard (which happens to be the entire southwestern part of texas). He should see 'way of the gun' for all future movies. His major problem is that he does everything himself with no one is telling him to stop it... so here goes... "Robert! Stop it! You’ll never amount to a serious filmmaker"
Ritchie made 'lock stock', and then remade it better with 'snatch'. 'Snatch' is a great balance of story, style and performance. The style is appropriate for the story, the performances are appropriate for the style and the movie simply rocks with humor and testosterone. Swept away was an anomaly- he was swept away with snatch (old wrinkly snatch that warren Beatty already lock stock and barreled).
For those of you comic book geeks that are going to trumpet sin city to me, all I got to say is that it was an interesting experiment- that’s all. It wasn’t a movie in the traditional sense (story, real characters and continuity) but rather a translation of a paneled 2D book into a flowing 3D movie. It was clunky and awkward because of it.
Vote goes to Ritchie.
fincher and gondry.
fincher gets my vote.
everything that's been posted above on these two directors i completely agree with.
if gondry had made just one more movie on the level of 'sunshine', then I would have seen a trend. otherwise the movie was a one-hit-wonder.
love fincher. he's one of those directors that you want to direct all your dream pet projects. I just wish he would tone down the polished look of his movies... go a little more low budget, raw and real.
Justin said...
First off, welcome miss leslie, to "The Great Director's Debate" or what I am now referring to as "The Debate Where Leslie Got Tore a New One".
Robert Rodriguez VS Guy Ritchie
Sure, I can see where you might be able to point out Ritchie's selling out-ness (although I never saw 'Swept Away'). But don't hold it against a guy who wants to make a movie for a loved one. That's like chastising a bicycle salesman who gets his wife a good deal on a 10-speed (the 'Swept Away' bike would have no seat, just the seat post). And the old adage "You're only as good as your last picture" has never been more applicable than in Guy Ritchie's career. I'm still surprised how short the memories are of some of us who forget what a blast 'Lock, Stock..' and 'Snatch' were to watch for the first time.
But I take issue when you call Robert Rodriguez a sell-out. Even when Robert was still in his twenties and selling his bile just to get his first film cut together, you knew this guy was meant for the big leagues. Big action, larger than life characters, modest production costs, a studio dream.
But without initial resources, 'El Mariachi' made him the indy-action wiz kid. And indy usually equals artsy. So I can see how he could be labeled in with that crowd.
Once he became "The Golden Child" of Miramax, with studio resources AND support, he made the movies he always wanted to: sensational action movies with mass appeal.
So the 'Spy Kids' franchise was lacking in some fundamental story and character elements. Those movies were handcrafted for his kids. And your kids. Admittedly, it was no 'Goonies', but the franchise has made tons of money for the studio and given parents a reason to hang with their kids. And I'm certain if you asked little 8-year-old Jimmy if he thought the "Inciting Incident" was enough to motivate the protagonist, he'd probably reply "Who really gives a sweet feathery Christ?"
'Sin City' should reaffirm even a blind moviegoers faith in Robert's vision and artistry when the source material is good.
The only thing Robert's selling out are theater seats for a broad cross section of movie fans.
WINNER: LIVING LA VIDA RODRIGUEZ
Erin, when moses comes down from the mountain and sees that you've made a golden statue of matthew vaughn... boy is he gonna be pissed.
oh, btw, you back stabbing muther fucker, keep me away from yer family, cause I've got a sharp knife and a can of fava beans ready for my feast on your new kid.
angry singer lover pete
hey justin.
do you write yer own material, or does it come right off the cuff?
I want to hire your writer. Mine is an angry racist, gay bashing, chauvanist pig.
oh wait, that's me.
Pete, I see that you posted whilst I was drafting mine, and I commend you on finally giving credit to Chris McQuarrie. Where was the love when you were deifying Singer on Monday, April the 10th?
To Pete and Erin: To write off 'Sin City' as just an experiment is pretty narrow minded and glib (Tomkat buzzword). The opening scene treatment he prepared pro-bono to win over Frank Miller and the studio was the experiment. The film itself is a complete success and probably the truest adaptation of a comic to the big screen. Pete, by calling the movie non-traditional, I hope you are only referring to its visual style. Everything about this film (yes, FILM) feeds on the ultra-classic noir style with by-the-book archetypal heroes and villians facing hellish odds.
Damn, you guys have me on a tear today.
Erin, you're Jewish? I knew it!!
Justin.
Sin city is clunky at best. you can't translate a paneled story directly. It needs more. there are scenes that your mind fills in in graphic novel and scenes that the director needs to provide in a movie. Its basic filmmaking 101... wait I failed that course (and so did Lucas).
it almost works... but gets lost now and then.
do you have any children? you voted for Nolan right?
justin.
read my lengthy post on singer. I give McQuerrie loads of credit for his co-scripting duties on usual suspects.
David Fincher VS Michel Gondry
Ray, I wish I'd put money on Erin voting for Fincher. I told you not to worry. Remember, I said he only pretends he's retarded.
This is a lopsided battle if ever there was one. Gondrey would have to score at least two more home runs to even be considered a match-up.
miss leslie, a word of advice: stop ordering the "Shroom Lover's Pizza" as I think it must be impairing your judgment. Did you sleep through the '90's and miss 'Se7en', 'The Game' and 'Fight Club'? This guy is what DePalma has tried to be for years- Hitchcock without the chubby cheeks.
Don't get me wrong 'Eternal...' is great, quirky, endearing, edgy, and with a title that's fun to say in front of people, etc, etc. And that's because-are you ready for this: CHARLIE KAUFMAN WROTE THE F-ING SCRIPT!
WINNER: DAVID FINCHER
FUNFACT Fincher shot the music video 'Freedom '90, introducing me to Linda Evangelista, who would become a charter member of The Justin Alt Spank Bank.
Petey- Panel to screen? You mean like a storyboard? Yeah, that never works!
Essentialy, part of filmmaking involves economizing on time. So when you don't see Han relenquishing yesterday's lunch into the Falcon's shitter, it's still safe to assume that he's a regular guy.
I will go back and give 'Sin City' a third viewing to analyze what you're saying.
oh man. he is one funny muther fucker.
when i grow up I wanna be Justin.
for making me giggle, I will save your children for last.
oh and for the record: 'Sin city', 'once upon a time in mexico' and 'from dusk to dawn' are sensational action movies with mass appeal? mass appeal? I think not!
Pete, you sarcastic bastard.
Damn, I went to sleep last night with 3 posts up. Just got home, 18 posts!!! Great stuff guys.
I was about to post but "The Dukes of Hazzard: Reunion!" is on.
I was taking into account all of Gondry's music videos and shorts as well as his so-called "one hit wonder" in this debate. Take away everything except his features, then, yes, I would've voted for Fincher. Seven and Fight Club were the first 2 dvd's I ever bought. And I believe Fight Club is a direct wormhole into Chuck Palahniuk's sick and twisted mind. But Gondry's videos for Bjork, Daft Punk, Beck, etc. are pure wonder.
I don't understand why so many people love Snatch. It made me dizzy. Maybe I should give it another try and not smoke a fat blunt this time. (In case any future employers are reading this, I'm just kidding.)
Justin:
1. I am not Jewish
2. I actually am pro-'Sin City' so the next time you attack me for being something I am not, I shall cyber-rape your cyber-hole
3. You ARE one funny mother fucker
Pete:
1. You come near my kid, I'll kill you
2. Seriously dude...de-caf...think about it
3. You got a message while you were gone, something about a promotion to wizard or a grand wizard of some club or something? Something about B.Y.O.H., bring your own hood…I didn't know you were into Dungeons & Dragons...
Ray:
1. Did you tape the Dukes Reunion for me?
Leslie:
1. You are a brave woman to tangle with this group of peanut M&M eatin' fanboys and geeks. I applaud you (simply cos I want a role in one of your movies...no...the OTHER kind of movie...the legit ones!!! I still ache at night from the things I had to do in that other film you cast me in...)
My $.02:
Rodriguez vs. Ritchie
Agreed with Miss Leslie in regards to the sell-out factor... the rotting-corpse stink of their collective dignities may be heinous... but Rodriguez is at least the more likely to do something of substance than Herr Vanity Project Ritchie. I guess Madonna went all Svengali/Succubus on him, leaving only the husk behind to produce "Revolver." Yecchh.
Rodriguez wins.
Fincher vs. Gondry
Really? I mean, really?
If Fincher's direction of the three most memorable Paula Abdul videos of all time doesn't speak for itself...
but then again, Gondry's French.
Fincher wins.
Pete,
Just watched Superman Returns Trailer 2 on Quicktime and I have to say, you may be on to something with that Singer fella. Holy Geez!
Rodriguez vs Ritchie
Rodriguez wins for one reason, you can see Salma Hayek's boobies in Desperado.
Fincher vs Gondry
How the hell did Gondry beat Spike Jonze? Nevermind... Fincher by a mile. We shouldn't even be able to debate this. It's not even close.
I leave for one day and the place goes to pot.
Ms leslie... you watch bjork videos too? I guess you're the other person. fyi, her new full length video by mr barney is worth a gander, but dont tell erin, he's a closet barney fan.
justin, I'm telling you, singer is the next great director of our time. from the looks of kong, singer is ahead of jackson in my mind.
Ray
You should have been around to give your 2 cents worth about the Gondry VS Jonze battle.
Maybe if you spent less time studying 'Bewitched' episodes and more time in the real world...of blogging...Jonze would've made it to Round 2!
"Bewitched"? I waste time with old episodes of "The Dukes of Hazzard".
Looks like Rob Rod is making it to the next round... boy, i can't wait to rip this director a new one in the next round (not that anyone would listen to me in that round either).
I'm sorry, did you say something, Pete?
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